NEWSLETTER NO. 51 OF 16 JUNE 2008

1. NEWS AND CURRENT AFFAIRS
1.1 Package offered.
Godbole now offers a package of his books and a CD. The books are -
Taj Mahal: Simple Analysis of a Great Deception. (2nd edition)
Why Rewrite Indian History (2nd edition).

The CD has eight PowerPoint presentations, namely -
1st is on historical arguments on Taj Mahal (125 slides)
2nd is called Unseen Taj Mahal (91 slides)
3rd is called How the Taj legend grew (240 slides)
Taj Chronology 1/2/3/4 (information in tabular form)

Special London Tour (see below)

One package was sent to Konerrad Elst in Belgium. He was very pleased to read the books. But he could not open the CD as his Computer is not working effectively.

Another package was sent to Stephen Knapp of America. Some 3 years ago he started a web-site on which 25 photos of Taj Mahal are posted.

Public performance of PowerPoint presentations
Shree Harish Dhruv, wrote from California (USA) -
"The Republic day celebration was on Saturday Jan 26th.The program was attended by over 800 persons in the auditorium and the slides on Taj were presented, and many persons appreciated the work you researched on that subject, and wanted to know what we all can do to pursue the GOI, to allow opening up some sealed area for on going truth finding exploration in and around TAJ."

Godbole replied, "It is futile to persuade Government of India. What we can do is to have more shows and spread the knowledge, from 800 to 800,000 people and onto 80 million. If we can do that a great deal will be achieved."

1.2 Visit to Hindusthan
1.2.1 Public engagements
During January / February 2008 Shree and Sau Godbole made a short visit to Hindusthan. Godbole had 12 public engagements in 18 days. These were as follows-

PUNE
* Meeting at Prof Asnani's residence, Aundh - talked about 2nd editions of my books and CD
* Meeting of Chitpawan Brahmin Sangh, Chinchawad .- Discussed my books and CD
* Viewing of PowerPoint presentations with LCD projector. How the Taj legend grew / Unseen Taj Mahal - arranged by Ashok Athawale and Nitin Pawaskar
(audience of 15)
* MES College - Students' Hostel - CD presentation of London Tour
* Meeting at residence of Dr Shreerang Godbole, Pune - discussed the launch of web-site on Savarkar.
* Lecture at MES College, History Department. - Savarkar and the 1857 War of Independence.
* Lecture at Senior Citizens meeting, Patwardhan Bagh - talked about 2nd editions of my book and CD.
* Lecture at Garware College of Commerce - talked on Rationalism of Veer Savarkar.
* Public meeting at Vartakashram - talked about 2nd editions of my book and CD
--------------------
KHADKI (Aurangabad)
* Bal Vikas Mandir - CD presentation on London Tour / Unseen Taj Mahal.
* Made a PowerPoint presentation on How the Taj Legend grew at the house of Headmaster Mr Kulkarni of Bal Vikas Mandir school.
* Teacher's meeting - Rationalism of Veer Savarkar (50 teachers attended)

THANE
* Visited school for Vanavasi children. This was a part of exchange of Teachers between England and Hindusthan.

1.2.2 Falsity of Indo-Saracenic Architecture
While in Aurangbad Godbole visited the famous Fort at Devagiri. It is surprising that Hindus had used pointed arches throughout during the construction of this 11th century Fort. We have been repeatedly told that Pointed Arches came with Islamic invaders!!
Godbole also visited so called Bibi ka Makbara and noted the details.

1.2.3 Old Boys' network (Perugate Bhave School, Pune)
In January 2007 Godbole met an old pal from his school days. His name is Sharad Govind Bapat. This time Godbole met Shree Bapat at his residence and had a long discussion on Godbole's research.

1.2.4 Late Prof P N Oak.
During his visit, Shree Godbole, Ashok Athawale and Anil Erande called on widow of Shree P N Oak who died in December 2007.

After Godbole informed of Oak's death, Prof Marvin Mills wrote from America (Florida) - "I regret to hear of Oak's passing. He was a great and courageous man, of high intellect and his works are of the greatest historic importance. His book on the Taj changed my life. I will supply you with detailed information, as you requested."

Marvin Mills
----------------
Later on he wrote -
Dear Vasudev:

Your project to create a powerpoint presentation on How the Taj Legend Grew sounds very exciting. My role in this story is minor but since you want some information I can tell you the following:

As an architect and architectural historian my interest developed from European architecture to Islamic architecture and then to the Taj Mahal. The key moment came in the early 70s when a professor friend of mine offered to lend me a book that he had run across that he thought might be of interest to me. It was Oak's 1965 book on the Taj. After reading it I began a long correspondence with Mr. Oak. In 1974 I made my first of three visits to India with Mr. Oak as my guide to Indian architecture. I collected the wood Taj sample at that time as well as a sample from Fatehpur Sikri. The samples were analyzed in an American laboratory in January 15 of 1975.

Mr. Oak's reference to the Mosque of Cordoba as being of doubtful Islamic origin led me to a continuing quest which resulted in my book: The Origin of the Mosque of Cordoba- Secrets of Andalusia.

I will help you in any way that I can and more promptly. Let me know what other information you need.

Marvin Mills

* On receipt of Godbole's CD on Taj Mahal Prof Mills was very delighted. He is going to start his own web-site and would use Godbole's research.

1.3 Taj Mahal - book by Begley and Desai (1989)
Dr Bhide of Pune said that he did not have a copy of above book. We are trying to see if someone in Hindusthan has a copy.

1.4 Taj Mahal - discussion on E Mails.
In 2007 the BBC was conducting a poll to select the 7 wonders of the world. Taj Mahal was obviously in the news. We quote the following exchanges in the group United Hindu Front, before and after the death of Shree P N Oak in December 2007

From: "Arvind Mallya" <mallya@yahoo.com>
To: <Unitedhindufront@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007
Subject: {UnitedHinduFront} Re: Taj Mahal-not so wonderful?-BBC News-Urgent Action

Namaskar Devinderji,

So some one in the UNESCO has to be educated about Indian monuments, looks to me this is pure political, once again an Islamic appeasement move. The Taj and its design can be seen in many buildings in Samarkhand, where the Mughals originated. The design is NOT of Indian (Hindu) origin and comes nowhere in comparison, in fact it does not even come any where close to the beauty of Jain Dilwara marble temples in Mt Abu and the latter is just one small temple compared to the Ajanta. Let us educate these UNESCO folks and show them our true Hindu heritage which is far more superior and complex compared to the newer Islamic monuments.
Arvind

To this Godbole replied 0n 2 July 2007
I wish to clarify two points.

(1) Please refer to The design development of Indian Architecture by Prof Claude Batley, published in 1934. About Taj Mahal he says,
p XII "...The fact that such planning is certainly indigenous to India can be traced in the layout of the simplest temple, in the magnificent temple-town plans of South India and in the various Indian mediaeval town layouts as reflected in the design of such a comparatively modern Indian town as Jaipur..."

Batley was Professor at the famous J J School of Arts, Mumbai.

(2) Taj Mahal is NOT built of marble like the Dilwara Temple. The construction is of brick. Marble or Red Sandstone are used as lining only.

---------------------------------------
From: pagarwal2000
To: Unitedhindufront@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007

Dear Sharmaji:

I am sorry to say that quoting Prof. P.N. Oak to make your argument about the Taj Mahal takes you to the lowest level. Oak is not an historian. He wrote his book from thin air.
And who are these New York Architects? Just because they come from New York, they are the experts? This is exactly the White Man superiority syndrome. We are not a colony anymore, we constitute a FREE India. We have enough architects and historians in India to make the right judgment about Taj Mahal.
Your argument falls flat when you quote Oak and the two New York architects.

P. Agarwal
--------------------------
On 1 Jul 2007 Shree Godbole wrote:
Dear Shree Agarwal,

(1) You say Oak is not a Historian. Can you tell me how one becomes a Historian in your opinion?

(2) The New York Architect is not anonymous. His name is Prof Marvin Mills. After reading Oak's book on Taj Mahal, Prof Mills became curious, met Mr Oak and visited Taj Mahal a few times. On his last visit he said to Mr Oak, "How about carrying out a Carbon 14 testing?"
Oak said, "Go ahead."
Prof Mills then took a sample from a timber door on the river side (later blocked by Archaeological Survey of India), sent it for testing and then was convinced that Taj Mahal was NOT built by Shahjahan.

(3) Two letters challenging the Taj Legend were published by the RIBA (Royal Institute of British Architects) Journal in 1980. One by Mr Oak, the other one by me. Not one Historian / Architect in your FREE India has guts to challenge our letters.
Do you want to take up the challenge and write to RIBA journal? Come on. Be brave!
----------------------------
On 2 July Agarwal replied
Dear Shri Godbole:

I don't want to be carried away with your emotional outburst and challenge. No historians/architects from our FREE India who are scholars and experts would challenge your letters if they are convinced that they are made up stories and there is nothing in there to make a challenge. I am sorry that they did not challenge you.

Peace to you.

P. Agarwal
-----------------------------------
Dear Mr Agarwal,
You response is vague and puny in comparison to the stark facts reproduced by Mr Godbole and the pioneering work done by Mr Oak which remains unchallenged to this time.

Please take note of the fact that anti Hindu policies of the UPA government in India have made Hindus stronger and united. Hindus to-day are one in agitating about the discriminatory policies against Hindus, disinformation against Hinduism, the cause of Kashmiri Hindus who are refugees in their own country and cutting out Hindu representation in services through reservations. We have also a challenge to present true picture of Hinduism to America and Europe which has been distorted by the wily secularists and communists.

Please therefore take up the challenge or be a true Hindu and respect your culture and heritage.
P.N.Razdan (Punjab)

----------------------
"Dr. Madhukar Ambekar" <drmnambe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Well Challenged !!!
Dear P. Agarwal
Can you show some "guts" (if you have) to challenge Dr. V.S. Godbole. He does not speak off the cuff. He has years of research behind him. I met P.N. Oak. You can try and challenge him too. He is nearly 90 years of age BUT has the vigour of a young man when it comes to challenges.

If you are true to your words you must do research and reply to Dr. Godbole. Have you stamina and courage to do it.

Dr. Ambekar. (London)
----------------------------
Godbole wrote -
Dear Shree Agarwal,
(1) As expected, you have ducked the issues.
On one hand you say that Oak is not a Historian. But you refuse to say how one becomes a Historian in your opinion?

(2) Truth always surfaces no matter how much persons like you wish to suppress. For the benefit of others in the group I have to state some facts.
After Prof Mills was satisfied that Taj Mahal was NOT built by Shahjahan, he turned his attention to the so called Moorish Architecture in Spain.
When the Spaniards threw out the Arab (Moors) rulers they also kicked them all out of Spain and have never been afraid of Muslims. The Spanish authorities allowed Mills to take samples for Carbon dating OFFICIALLY. As suspected, Mills discovered that the so called Moorish Architecture was a myth. He has published his findings.

Mills then wrote to Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) and said that the Taj Controversy can be settled if he was allowed to take some 20 samples OFFICIALLY. As the ASI are scared to death of the truth, they replied, "It is NOT considered desirable to carry out such tests."

(3) Letters in the RIBA Journal.
Participants of our group may wish to know what is in those letters.
(a) The Dutch East India Company had a Factory (Trading post) at Agra. Pelsaert, their merchant was stationed there from 1620 to 1627. In 1626 he prepared a Commercial Report for his directors in Holland. In it he describes Agra of 1626,
i.e. 2 years BEFORE Shahjahan came to power and 6 years before Mumtaz died. He states that 10 1/2 mile stretch of the river bank was full of palaces and lists many of the owners.
Late Raja Mansingh's Palace being the last but one.

(b) Badshahnama, the official chronicle of Shahjahan (Volume I page 403) states clearly that Shahjahan grabbed Late Raja Mansingh's palace for burying his wife Mumtaz.
The question of Shahjahan building a monument just does not arise.

>> It is interesting to note that -
(i) English translation of Pelsaert's Report was published in 1925 and yet no Historian/ Architect in Agarwal's FREE India wants to know, as that fact is too embarrassing.

(ii) During the British Raj, British scholars (mainly their ICS officers) translated chronicles of Babur, Humayun, Akbar and Jehangir but NOT Shahjahan. WHY?
I am sure you do not want to answer. It is for others to think.
I sent copies of these letters to some Historians and Professors in your FREE India, and also to the ASI. Now they all face an embarrassing situation. With the advent of Computer Technology these letters cannot be hidden. They will appear on any research on Taj Mahal. The fact that these remain unchallenged can also be verified. So, keeping quiet does not help.

In 1982, ASI published a booklet called Taj Museum. The authors are one Mr Kaul and Z A Desai. Mr Desai is a Muslim. His name is Ziauddin Ahmad. The authors inform us that on the site of Taj Mahal, until then stood Late Raja Mansingh's Palace.
So, what happened to that palace? Common sense tells that, Raja Mansingh's Palace has been misused as a tomb or what is being called Taj Mahal.

I pray Lord Ganesh that he should bestow common sense to you.

V S Godbole
-------------------------------------------------
From: Arjuna
To: Unitedhindufront@googlegroups.com ; R Sekhon ; nitin ; double...@yahoo.co.uk ; raj108uk ; harish ; s_sharma...@yahoo.co.uk ; par...@hotmail.com ; vignesh
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 12:19 PM

There's a big difference between fantasy writing and being an historian. By the
P N Oak theories below one can clearly see he is a fantasy writer but unfortunately not in the same mould as Eric Von Daniken. Now why would a well recognised figure of authority like Sita Ram Goel who wrote books like What happened to Hindu Temples? regard Mr Oak as a nutter? Now can any of you challenge him?

"He (Oak) says that both Islam and Christianity originated as distortions of Vedic beliefs. He insists that the word Islam itself derives from the Sanskrit term "Ishalayam" meaning the Temple of God. He alleges that Kaaba in Mecca was originally a shrine to Shiva. [1]
He says that Christianity began as a form of devotion to Krishna. According to Oak, "Christianity is a mal-pronunciation of the Sanskrit term Chrisn-nity also spelled as Krishna-neeti. Since Bhagavad Geeta is the book of Krishna-neeti, what we know as Christianity is a fossiled, broken branch of the Vedic tree, and in fact the ancient Bhagavad Geeta cult." [2]
Oak argues that the Papacy was "a Vedic priesthood" until Constantine the Great killed the Vedic pope to replace him with the head of the hitherto unimportant Christian sect. This instantly ensured the Europe-wide triumph of Christianity because of the "sacred sway of the holy hoary Vedic priest known as the Shankaracharya".[3]
He also says that the Taj Mahal and other buildings were actually converted shrines to Hindu deities. Oak also says that the tombs of Humayun, Akbar and Itmiad-u-Dallah -- as well as "all historic buildings" in India -- and also the Vatican in Rome, the Kaaba in Mecca, and Stonehenge -- were also Hindu temples or palaces. [4]

--------------------
On Jul 4 2007, 2:14 am, Shree Godbole wrote:

Dear Arjunji,
Mr P N Oak has the bad habit of distracting people and wandering from one issue to the next. He takes delight in making a laughing stock of himself. That is why I fell out with him in 1985.

However, his book on Taj Mahal aroused my curiosity. I asked him questions which ran into 40 pages. Unlike his critics, I sought the answers myself and when all of them were satisfactorily answered I accepted that Taj Mahal is an ancient Hindu structure. It was NOT built by Shahjahan. My publications are -

Taj Mahal : Simple Analysis of a Great Deception (2nd edition would be published soon)
Why Rewrite Indian History? (this explains why neither the Government of India nor Indian Historians would do this work, 2nd edition is now printed)

Taj Mahal and the Great British Conspiracy (This 350 page book was the result of research stretching over 15 years. I have listed all the pieces of evidence on Taj Mahal available from 1784 to 1984. They all point to the fact that Shahjahan did not build Taj Mahal).

YES I will take on likes of Sita Ram Goel. My next publication will be Falsity of Indo-Saracenic Architecture. I did make a start and my preliminary notes have been typed. I even delivered a lecture on the subject. But there have been too many distractions. For example, a lot of garbage has been written about Savarkar recently. After a research of 12 years I was able to publish Rationalism of Veer Savarkar (in Marathi and English) and translate his two important books - Inside the Enemy Camp, and Newsletters from London, from Marathi into English for Oxford University.

Be assured that I will provide a resounding reply to likes of Sita Ram Goel as far as so called Islamic Monuments in India are concerned.

V S Godbole
-------------------------------------
From: prabhu shastry
To: v.godbole3@ntlworld.com ; Ambekar ; Vasant Kothari
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: Fwd: Dr Shastry Re: Swargvas of Shri P.N. Oak.

Namaste. Sarva Shri Madhukar Ambekar, Vasudeva Godbole, and all
Sanmitra varga.
I received the sad news from Shri Hari Kak. He mailed the attached material as condolence message. Pl advise me what else we need to do in the memory of Swargiya Shri Prof P N Oak.
Dhanyavads.
Dr S Shastry,
Freelance Sanskrit teacher.
Note: forwarded message attached.
--------------------------

Godbole replied -
Dear Dr Shastry,
(1) Thank you for your E Mail.
What a pity than even the news of Shree Oak's death has not spread. I had circulated the news to 350 of my contacts. None of them had read or heard the news.

(2) I am rather puzzled by E Mails from you and Shree Kak. In yours you mentioned some one called Pandharinathji - who is he? Shree Kak says - "The sick old man died at 91." - That is an insult.

And where does he get his information from? wikipedia!! Who told him that Indira Gandhi banned Oak's books?

(3) You say - what else we need to do?
My answer is - we need to study his failings and blunders and then resolve never to make the same mistakes again. None his Bhaktas would like this.

This study has to be restricted to only a select few. Let me point just two.

(a) In 1964 Oak wrote his first book on Taj Mahal. He faced a lot of opposition and had many arguments. One of his opponents was a Kashmiri Pandit who was also a Persian Scholar. He argued that there was documentary evidence proving that Shahjahan built Taj Mahal. Both went to the Government of India Archives. The Director showed them the Badshahnama. The expert started to browse. Soon he came to Volume I page 403. It stated that Shahjahan took over Raja Mansingh's Palace for burying his wife Mumtaz. The Pandit admitted that he was wrong. He then gave Oak the Roman script version of pages 402/403 and a line by line translation. But as he was in Government service he asked Oak not to reveal his identity.
But you would NOT find this explanation in any of Oak's writings because he wanted to take the credit to himself (that is also my own experience). Credit must be given to whom it is due.

(b) I read Oak's book in 1977/78. My questions ran into some 40 pages. I studied all the references normally quoted by Historians. One by one my questions were answered and I became convinced that Taj Mahal was indeed a Hindu structure. This led to my booklet - Taj Mahal : Simple Analysis of a Great Deception. You now have its 2nd edition.
But then the question arise - why does this matter? Mr Oak never replied to this question.
As soon as the question was raised I wrote - Why Rewrite Indian History? I revised my answer six times and eventually it was published as a booklet (you have 2nd edition of the same).

Mr Oak simply said that my answer was good and that was the end of the matter. You do not find my booklet mentioned in Bibliography of any of Mr Oak's books.

I think I have said enough. Now I want to know your reaction.

V S Godbole
England
-----------------
From: Pranawa C. Deshmukh
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: Death of P N Oak

I have read Shri Oak's book on the Taj Mahal. He passionately researched this issue and campaigned hard to make the world know about his findings. Shri Vasudev Ji Godbole is the only other person I know who has researched this very important issue. Regardless of when this can be conclusively established, this dedicated work inspires any seeker of the Truth, which must and will prevail.
Pranawa

--------------------
Godbole relied -
Dear Dr Deshmukh,
We need to be a bit careful in use of words.

In Historical research one should NOT be passionate but dedicated.

After I read Mr Oak's book I asked him questions which ran into 40 pages.
But then decided to seek the answers myself and I told Oak that, that is what I would do. He was impatient and wrote to me, "You take it from me that Shahjahan did not build Taj Mahal." I replied, "I would never do that."
After a study and research of one year all my doubts vanished.

Facts have been conclusively established, whether or not the parties who have vested interest accept them. In 1980 two letters challenging the validity of the Taj Legend were published in the Journal of the Royal Institute of British Architects, one by Mr Oak and the other by me. Archaeological Survey of India did not respond. But in 1982 they published a booklet entitled Taj Museum. In it they do say - "on that site (of Taj Mahal) until then stood late Raja Mansingh's Palace."

What more proof do you want?

It is also a fact that in 1626, 10 1/2 mile stretch of bank of river Jumna was full of palaces, Late Raja Mansingh's Palace being the last but one. This was recorded by the Dutch Merchant Pelsaert who was stationed at Agra during 1620-27. He gives names of owners of many palaces. His work was translated into English in 1925. But because this fact is so embarrassing to our Historians that they all avoid mentioning Pelsaert's name.

It is for us to propagate the truth. 2nd editions of my books are now available, namely Taj Mahal : Simple Analysis of a Great Deception
Why Rewrite Indian History.

V S Godbole
-----------------------------------------------------

From: "Truth shall win" <ricktaz123@yahoo.com>
To: "Vasudev" <v.godbole3@ntlworld.com>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:37 AM
Good Oak (Poison Oak) is dead. We should build a samadhi after him and call it TRASH MAHAL. He was a bigoted, liar and a Shiv Sena activist, blinded in his own belief. He tried to sow the seeds of hatred in modern India. Kudos to the Indian Supreme Court for taking impartial decision and justice by throwing out his petition.

This ass brain did not know limitations of carbon dating. If the Taj Mahal marble tests 1 million years old does it prove that Taj was built 1 million years ago (yes you can test the age of marble: ask any geologist.)

When has anyone used a freshly cut tree to make a door that too of the Taj mahal on which the emperor spent millions of Indian currency at that time (worth billions today?). Even a lay person knows that you use cured (aged) wood for doors or frames, this is because of warping problems if freshly cut timber were used.

This mongrel stooped to the lowest levels of bigotry, hate mongering and Muslim bashing to prove his ultra dubious points. First he said that the Taj Mahal was a palace. Then being a Shiv Sena activist, changing his mind, he said it was a Shiv mandir, but he cannot produce any record from Hindu history that a mandir of such beauty and caliber ever existed there. And he goes on to say that the Taj was leaking at the time it was reportedly built (hence it was much older.). Now any civil engineer knows that even using RCC (steel and cement) construction a new building roof can leak if it rains and it needs further correction of minor leaks and cracks due to cement setting. Even here in the USA a new home buyer will get a walk thru in the attic to test for leaks when buying a new home.

Then again the issue of locked rooms with ordinary brick walls is brought into question. Taj was built by digging a foundation at least a few stories deep. This is to support the upper heavy marble structure (remember no steel support pillars, beams or columns are used )
Secondly most of the workers on the Taj lived on site (it took 22 years) so all quarters were in the lower levels (yes you lived on site, because of no mass transportation) and once the upper main structure was over the simple living quarters were just sealed off using ordinary brick walls (Now mischief mongers can sneak in an idol into the basement or throw an idol into the well and claim it was there since eternity).
It would be of tremendous waste to line a basement workshop with expensive marble hence no marble is found there.

Then he mentions a well. The well was there to supply drinking water to the thousands of workers, artisans, etc. although you have Taj Mahal on river bank the river can be polluted, hence lot of Indian villages have wells on the river banks where the earth purifies the water and makes it potable. And on and on......

Even if Shiva were to manifest at the Taj he is just there to enjoy its beauty. I can challenge all his false propaganda and also of another bigot called Knapp (another shit hole) and others thru a distinct scientific forum and any of his blinded supporters can be there. Until then let this sorry POISON OAK soul rest in his TRASH MAHAL and oops if it is garbage day today, please take your trash out to dump on his samadhi. Me, I will not even spit on his Trash Mahal.

Sorry folks I am a bit rude here but I don't want bigots/zealots storming onto the Taj Mahal and bringing it down like they did at Babri Masjid....for even if you put all the resources and money of current world we can never build another Taj during the life of this Mother Earth....for the Taj Mahal has happened only once for the purpose of our eternal enjoyment. When this millenium belongs to India, we want to present our joint heritage to the world to come and share our past super achievements. Thanks for reading.
[ Our Notes - *There is no escape from 20,000 men working for 22 years. These figures come up in arguments, sooner or later.
* Carbon testing is not done on marble, but bricks, mortar and timber.
* It is true that timber is allowed to dry before use, but that does not take decades.
* There is no mention of building of Taj Mahal in Badshshnama, the official chronicle of Shahjahan.]
-------------------------------------------------
On Tuesday, January 29, 2008 12:44 PM Shree Godbole complained -
Where are the Moderators? Is such language permissible? The person does not identify himself.
V S Godbole

[There was no reply from the Moderators]
From: "Vasudev" <v.godbole3@ntlworld.com>
To: "Truth shall win" <ricktaz123@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:20 PM

Who are you? What is your name? In which country do you live? Why are you afraid of giving these details? I am sure you are a secularised Hindu. Muslims do not use such language.
For your information I have recently published 2nd edition of my book
Taj Mahal : Simple Analysis of a great deception.

Moreover, I have prepared some PowerPoint presentations -
Taj Mahal : Simple Analysis of a great deception.
Unseen Taj Mahal
How the Taj Legend Grew
Taj Chronology 1/2/3

In this age of Computers, the Truth shall indeed ultimately triumph.
As they say in English, let the dogs bark, the caravan marches on.

V S Godbole
----------------------------------------------------

1.6 We and the RSS
The RSS has an organisation called Bharat Itihas Sankalan Samiti devoted to Historical Research. It is headed by Dr Hebalkar. Last year, Godbole and Ashok Athawale met him in Pune. Godbole gave copies of his books and print outs (Newsletters / articles) to Hebalkar.
In March 2008 Hebalkar came to London to visit his daughter. Godbole contacted him on phone. He said to Godbole, "Your work on Taj Mahal was very useful to us. It has been distributed to workers in other provinces of Hindusthan. We had many discussions based on your book. Your name has spread outside Maharashtra."
Godbole sent 2nd editions of his books plus the CD with relevant PowerPoint presentations through a friend in London. Hebalkar managed to see all the PowerPoint presentations at Dr Ambekar's place and was very pleased. He said that the CD was like an Encyclopaedia. Any one can extract information from it for one's individual needs.

1.5 Website
All of Godbole's research is now on the following web-site www.satyashodh.com.
We have now added summaries of ALL newsletters.

1.6 Influence of Urdu
It is astonishing that the Arya Sanajists, though insisting on following the Vedas and denouncing Hindus who practise Murti Pujas, are still influenced by Urdu. When celebrating Bhagat Singh's martyrdom they called him Shashid-e-Azam

On 3 October 2007 Godbole asked - "Why do you use the Urdu word Shaheed-e-Azam? Call him Mahan Karntikarak." Here are some reactions -

Harih OM - Dhanya Ho Shri Vasudevji, being in U.K. High time our people use Samskritamaya words

Namaskar

Govind Thakkar (4 October 2007, 6:14 p.m)

-------------------------
Godboleji,

Not necessary that a Krantikarak would have laid his life for the motherland. Therefore, calling Shaheed Bhagat Singh a Mahan Krantikarak would not justify his ultimate sacrifice. It appears that you have some aversion for Urdu. Most of the people think that it is the language of Muslims for they have been mainly calling it as their mother-tongue. It is not a fact. If it were the language of Muslims it would have been widely spoken in all the Muslim countries. This language has taken birth in India. Therefore, it is one of our own languages. After Hindi we should love this language at par with others. Hindi being our National Language needs more of our attention. I believe we should not hesitate calling Bhagat Singh as Shaeed-e-Azam for it expresses the right salutation to this great son of India.

Om Prakash Ochani, Bangalore. ( 5 October 2007 5:26 p.m.)
---------------------------------------
Sir, Namaste.
I fail to understand, what difference does it make what language is used to describe his name or the deeds of Shaheed-e- Azam Bhagat Singh. It is not going to change from Shaheed e Azam Bhagat Singh to somebody else if we use Hindi, Urdu, Gurmukhi, English or even Swahili. He has been moralized as Shaheed-A-Azam Bhagat Singh will remain as such Shaheed-A-Azam Bhagat Singh in any language. So please expand your horizon.
Thanks.
Kewal Ahluwalia. (4 October 2007, 9:22 p.m.)
---------------------------------
Shri AhuwaliaJi
NAMASTE

The difference is that this great soul was from our nation and to give him the title of our own is the best way to honour him, you do wish to give your son /daughter a Muslim name still they will be your children?

Pranam

Shree Wadher ( 5 October 2007, 5:48 p.m.)
--------------------------
Priya Om Prakashji
NAMASTE

This is NOT true. Saheed and Azam are both Urdu words and not from Hindi vocabulary. You say Urdu was born here? or to say it was born here just to appease Muslims. Such words do not appear in our original texts such as Geeta, Ramayan, Mahabharata, so how it could be treated par with Hindi. Let us make our own strong and rest will follow. I would think the word 'Kranti Veer' would have appropriate.

Pranam

Shree Wadher (5 October 2007 8:41 p.m.)
---------------------------

Vinayakji,

I have never said 'Shaheed' and 'Azam' are Hindi words.

As per the history of Urdu, that I know, it was born here and not brought from any other place. Urdu was spoken mainly by the military of that time (appx,600 years ago). First it was called Rekhta and subsequently popularly called Urdu. If it was 'brought' here then specify from which country? No Muslim country other than Pakistan speaks this language. Even in Pakistan, contrary to the general notion, it is spoken in minority. Sindhi, Punjabi, and Pashto are spoken more in Pakistan than Urdu. Since I am not a historian or an expert of this language, therefore, I would shirk talking too much on this subject.

Of course, I have read some books and based on that it is my notion about this language. The question of appearing any reference of this language in our historical books like Geeta, Ramayana, and Mahabharata does not arise because this is comparatively a new language. For that matter even "Hindi" does not appear in these books. The word Hindu (and subsequently Hindi) is coined only after Muslim invasion. Though these days we have adopted this word in a positive way but its original meaning is quite negative. Literally, it used to mean 'non-believer'. We were appropriately called 'Arya' but now-a-days, unfortunately, people do not like calling themselves so.

I do not mind calling him Kranti Veer if it gives the correct meaning that he lost his life in the struggle that was close to his heart. Rather, I will appreciate its Hindi equivalent, for, as I said Hindi should be our first choice. But I doubt if "Kranti Veer" even will replace Shaheed-e-Azam with full fidelity. Hindi experts only can decide it.

Vinayakji, I must appreciate your love for Hindi. Please keep it up.

With regards :: Om Prakash Ochani.
-------------------------
Namastey ,

INSTEAD OF SHAEED -E -AZAM. HOW ABOUT HUTATMA?.
Please promote Sanskrit instead of Urdu.
Ramesh Jhalla (9 October 2007 2:27 p.m.)
-------------------------
What wankers, of course it makes a difference what you write in, "Shaheed" has a very specific Islamic connotation & given to one who declared his faith in Islam & later died in a religious war fighting for Islam. Just because some ignorant people have begun to use it does not mean it's ok.

Harish 8 October 2007 5:32 p.m.
--------------------------------------
HarishJi
NAMASTE

If the word 'Shaheed - Azam' were used in Hindi as 'Krantiveer' it would have been most appropriate.

Pranam

Shree Wadher (9 October 2007 2:03 p.m.)
-----------------
Things have not changed. We recently received the following E Mail.

From: Om Sapra
To: aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:43 PM
Subject: [aryayouthgroup] shahid diwas on 23 march. 2008

NIMANTREN
NORTH DELHI VED PARCHAR MANDAL,(REGD.) & KENDRIYA ARYA YUVAK PARISHAD,DELHI

AMAR SHAHID BHAGAT SINGH, RAJ GURU, SUKHDEV KE BALIDAN DIWAS PAR

PARASTUT KARTA HAI EK YADGAR SANGEET SANDHYA

''AAJ KI SHAM ----SHAHIDO KE NAM''

SUNDAY, 23 MARCH 2008, SHAM 4.00 SE 7.00 BAJE TAK.

SATHAN: ARYA KUMAR SABHA, ARYA SAMAJ,VIJAY NAGAR

DOUBLE STORY MAIN ROAD, DELHI--110009.

GAYAK: SH.NARENDER ARYA 'SUMAN''

AAP SABHI SAPARIWAR SADER AAMANTRIT HAI.
---OM SAPRA,SANYOGAK.
PH: 9818180932, 011.27658197
------------------------------------------
1.7 How History gets falsified today.
We came across an interesting E Mail.
From: "Nancy Ganju" <nancy_ganju@yahoo.com>
To: "United Hindus" <unitedhindufront@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 3:58 AM
Subject: {UnitedHinduFront} The Pioneer January 11, 2008

24x7 TV purveys misinformation
Second Opinion: Indulata Das

Every profession has certain responsibilities. In the case of mass media, these are multiplied, because they shoulder the responsibility of unfolding the truth. Hence their version has to be impartial, and unbiased. The truth should also be seen from the angle of one's own country and culture, and not from that of an alien.

But most newspapers and news channels feel they are beyond all boundaries of responsibility. They are free to publish or broadcast anything and everything. And, they have no commitment to society. Such is the situation that the endeavour of most media-persons is not to express the truth but to campaign for some party, some individual or some institution.

Recently, a 24x7 English news channel broadcast a programme on the unrest in Kandhamal. The programme started with a picture of a burning cross, obviously hinting at violence against Christians. As if no violence was done to Hindus in this district of Orissa. Next, the anchor said, the problem in Kandhamal began with Hindus objecting to Christians erecting a structure. The fact that the structure was constructed on the ground where Durga Puja is observed every year was cleverly concealed by her.
She casually mentioned that "the vehicle of Swami Lakshmanananda" was attacked when he came to Brahmanigaon. Very misleadingly, she did not mention who attacked it and where exactly it was attacked. Again, very cleverly she asked, "Why was the Swami going to that place?" Here also she very deceptively concealed the fact that the attack on Swami Lakshmanananda was unprovoked, and it happened 50 km away from Brahmanigaon (where the Hindu-Christian clash had taken place).

Throughout the programme there were hundreds of pictures showing the damage done to Christians and no expression of any damage done to Hindus. For two seconds, a Hindu woman was shown crying. But there was no mention about the loss suffered by her. The anchor concealed the fact that Hindus have sustained equal or more damage in comparison to Christians and the first man who was killed was a Hindu, murdered by Christians. Hindus were portrayed as villains and Orissa was painted in shocking colours. Christians were shown as innocent victims; conversion was depicted as an act of benevolence!

Was this a news programme or a propaganda film paid for by missionaries?

For any comments, queries or feedback, kindly mail us at pioneerletters@yahoo.co.in ___________________________________________________________________ Related websites : http://shehjar.kashmirgroup.com
: http://www.hindujagruti.org
: http://kashmirgroup.com

1.8 Why we Hindus just complain all the time and NOT act?
1.8.1 Depict Hussein's women in nude

In June 2007 we received some E Mails about M Hussein depicting Hindu deities in nude. On 14 June, Godbole asked one Rajesh Patil (patilrama@gmail.com), "The question is - why can't we depict Hussein's wife and daughter in the nude? With today's technology this should be possible. Will some one do this?"

Patil simply replied - yes this CAN be done.

But no one has done it. So, why blame Western people for arranging exhibition of Hussein's paintings?

1.8.2 Who owns the media in India?
We have received following information through many E-Mails
The recent Gujarat elections have witnessed unaccountable money paid to media persons of both, print and electronic by Saudi Arabia to discredit Modi and the Hindutva forces, which Media did very fitfully without success.

There are several major publishing groups in India, the most prominent among them being the Times of India Group, the Indian Express Group, the Hindustan Times Group, The Hindu group, the Anandabazar Patrika Group, the Eenadu Group, the Malayalam Manorama Group, the Mathrubhumi group, the Sahara group, the Bhaskar group and the Dainik Jagran group.

Let us see the ownership of different media agencies.

NDTV: A very popular TV news media is funded by Gospels of Charity in Spain supports Communism. Recently it has developed a soft corner towards Pakistan because Pakistan President has allowed only this channel to be aired in Pakistan. Indian CEO Prannoy Roy is co-brother of Prakash Karat, General Secretary of Communist party of India. His wife and Brinda Karat are sisters.

India Today which used to be the only national weekly who supported BJP is now bought by NDTV!! Since then the tone has changed drastically and turned into Hindu bashing.

CNN-IBN: This is 100 percent funded by Southern Baptist Church with its branches in all over the world with HQ in US. The Church annually allocates $800 million for promotion of its channel. Its Indian head is Rajdeep Sardesai and his wife Sagarika Ghosh.

Times group list:
Times of India, Mid-Day, Nav-Bharth Times, Stardust , Femina, Vijaya Times, Vijaya Karnataka, Times now (24- hour news channel) and many more.

Times Group is owned by Bennet & Coleman. 'World Christian Council' does 80 percent of the Funding, and an Englishman and an Italian equally share balance 20 percent. The Italian Robertio Mindo is a close relative of Sonia Gandhi.

Star TV: It is run by an Australian, who is supported by St. Peters Pontificial Church Melbourne.

Hindustan Times: Owned by Birla Group, but hands have changed since Shobana Bhartiya took over. Presently it is working in Collaboration with Times Group.

The Hindu:
English daily, started over 125 years has been recently taken over by Joshua Society, Berne, Switzerland. N.Ram's wife is a Swiss national.

Indian Express: Divided into two groups.
The Indian Express and the New Indian Express (southern editions)

ACTS Christian Ministries have major stake in the Indian Express and later is still with the Indian counterpart.

Eenadu: Still to date controlled by an Indian named Ramoji Rao. Ramoji Rao is connected with film industry and owns a huge studio in Andhra Pradesh .

Andhra Jyothi: The Muslim party of Hyderabad known as MIM along with a Congress Minister has purchased this Telgu daily very recently.

The Statesman: It is controlled by Communist Party of India.
Kairal TV: It is controlled by Communist party of India (Marxist)

Mathrubhoomi: Leaders of Muslim League and Communist leaders have major investment.

Asian Age and Deccan Chronicle: Is owned by a Saudi Arabian Company with its chief Editor M.J. Akbar.

Gujarat riots which took place in 2002 where Hindus were burnt alive, Rajdeep Sardesai and Bharkha Dutt working for Star TV at that time got around 5 Million Dollars from Saudi Arabia to cover only Muslim victims which they did very faithfully. Not a single Hindu family was interviewed or shown on TV whose near and dear ones had been burnt alive, it is reported
Tarun Tejpal of Tehelka.com <http://tehelka. com/> regularly gets flat cheques from Arab countries to target BJP and Hindus only, it is said.

The ownership explains the control of media in India by foreigners. The result is obvious

Our comments -
(1) What next?
When BJP was in power in the Centre, what steps did it take to stop foreign Christian Missionaries taking over Indian mass-media?
We have Modi in power in Gujarat. What steps are being taken by his colleagues to ensure emerging of Hindu oriented papers in that state?
Of course, such activities have to be carried out in secret. But do we have the will power to change?

(2) Why can't we locate the reporters of these foreign controlled mass media and make their life hell?

(3) Why were the Indian owned papers always hostile to Savarkar and Hindutvavadis when they were NOT controlled by missionaries and Muslims?
----------------------
1.8.3 Savarkar / Shivaji are still limited to Maharashtra
On 24th May, in Pune, Narendra Modi, Chief Minister of Gujarat released a new edition of Savarkar's famous book on the 1857 War of Independence. Babasaheb Purandare, the famous Historian and Prof Shejwalkar of Nagpur were present on the dais.
There are just a few questions which were not addressed.
(i) There is no change in the book since it was first published in 1946. Quite a lot of information has been published in the last 62 years. Why was it not incorporated in the new edition? No one has asked this question
(ii) The book is in Marathi. How will it be read outside Maharashtra?
(iii) Modi could have easily sponsored a Gujarathi version of the book. He can still do it today. Why has he not been requested?

(iv) Purandare has written an excellent biography of Shivaji. But even after 50 years it has remains in Marathi. Surely, Modi could sponsor a Gujarati translation. Was such a request made to him? I think not.

So, why merely blame others??

2. AROUND LONDON TOUR OF PLACES ASSOCIATED WITH INDIAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS

2.1 Godbole conducted four tours.
* First tour was on 21 February 2008. It was specifically arranged for Dr Pathak, a Chemical Engineer. He had worked in America for six years and was returning to Hindusthan.

** Second tour was on 10 May 2008. Fifteen people participated, nine of them being youngsters between the ages of 25 and 30.

The day had a special significance. It was exactly 100 years ago when Savarkar organised a function in India House (65 Cromwell Avenue, London N6) to pay homage to martyrs of the 1857 War of Independence. In addition to the group of 15, another 15 people gathered outside India House. Godbole explained Savarkar's activities in this house. One man who was involved in India's Atom Bomb blast was overwhelmed by emotions.
*** On 1 June 2008 Godbole arranged another tour for students who were in a group led by Dr Bedekar/ Agarkar. Apart from the group of six, seven others joined in.

**** Fourth tour was organised for Mr Narang and his family who came from Florida, America.

2.2 CD of the Special London Tour
Godbole has modified the CD of the tour (PowerPoint presentation) by adding the following shots -
Approach to Brixton Prison
Front gate of Brixton Prison
House where H M Hyndman, the Scottish sympathiser lived.
(Savarkar mentions him in his Newsletters from London)

Cellular Jail in Andaman Islands (3 shots)
House where Ravindranath Tagore once lived
House where Dame Fawcett once lived. She was pioneer in 'Votes for women' movement (Suffragates). Savarkar does mention her in his newsletters from London.

2.3 Publicity
Out of the blue Prasun Sonwalkar, a Journalist who works for Press Trust of India (PTI) contacted Godbole and had a long discussion with him. He will send a report to PTI soon.

Some members of Metropolitan Police, London are interested in such tours.

A University student in Denmark has also shown interest in such tours.

3. History today
3.1 Web-site on Savarkar
This was launched on 26 February, the day of self sacrifice by Veer Savarkar. Please visit www.savarkar.org and let Godbole have your reactions.

3.2 Misconceptions about Jana Gana Mana
Despite our efforts, the malicious E Mail stating that Jana Gana Mana was composed by Ravindranath Tagore to welcome King George V, is still being circulating. (first seen in the year 2000)
Shree Bodas, a relative of Godbole, forwarded that E Mail in April. Pravinbhai Shah of London participated in Godbole's Special Tour of London on 1 June. He was under the influence of the same E Mail.

If you are forwarded the same E Mail please ask the sender to visit our web-site
www.satyashodh.com for clarification. We must put an end to this folly.

3.2 Kosovo
In the Times of 23 November 2007 we found an interesting letter to Editor, as follows
A new Kosovo crisis in the making
Sir,
As another crisis looms ("Fears grow for Kosovo as poll victory demands independence", November 20), we should remember the blunders and myths that led to this impasse.

In 1998-99 violence in Kosovo, then as now legally part of Serbia, stemmed from Serbian repression of the Kosovo Albanians, but also from the Albanian terrorist "Kosovo Liberation Army" to whose attacks the Serbs reacted with inexcusable brutality.

The pretext for the three-month NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was Serbian rejection of the ultimatum deliberately drafted at Rambouillet by Madeleine Albright (then US
Secretary of State) to ensure Serbian rejection and Albanian acceptance.

To secure the latter, Ms Albright, without NATO, UN or legal authority, promised the Albanians what amounted to independence.NATO bombing did not halt the Serbs' expulsion of thousands of Albanians from Kosovo: it precipitated it. NATO bombing never achieved the withdrawal of Serbian forces from Kosovo: American, Russian and Finnish diplomacy negotiated a settlement differing radically from Nato's demands. Everyone knew that NATO would never agree to a costly and dangerous land invasion. NATO's misguided attempt to exclude Russia and the UN from the eventual settlement failed completely, and the illegal use of force without United Nations authority created a catastrophic precedent for the Iraq fiasco four years later. Subsequent Serbian elections, not NATO bombing, rid Serbia of Milosevic.

Now Russia, Serbia and most of its neighbours understandably fear that a unilateral declaration of independence by the Kosovo Albanians would have disastrous regional consequences, inevitably aggravated by recognition by America and others. A solution short of full independence, with safeguards for the beleaguered Serbian minority in Kosovo, should remain the objective, even if it takes another eight years for the Kosovo Albanians to accept it. Otherwise "Balkanisation" may take on a new and yet more tragic connotation.

SIR BRIAN BARDER
HM Diplomatic Service 1965-94
London SW18
--------------------------------------

3.3 Swastika in Israel?

On 25 January 2008 Dr Ambekar sent us a fascinating E Mail.
Find the archeological evidence of Swastika found in Israel.
There two photos of Swastika in flooring.
On the Right are two ancient Vedic Swastika Mosaics from Jewish Synagogues discovered in Maoz-Haim, Israel and Ein Gedi, Israel

The link is as follows -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vediculture

This is an information resource and discussion group for people interested in the World's Ancient Vedic Culture, with a focus on its historical, archaeological and scientific aspects. Also topics about India, Hinduism, God, and other aspects of World Culture are welcome.
Put Swastika as your search topic.
Ref No is 11666. Author is Vrndavan Parkar. - The date is 20 January 2008.

If you can't find the Swastika please contact me (Godbole). I have preserved the photos. One of Godbole's neighbours is Jewish. His wife confirmed that the above information is correct.

3.4 British Royal Coat of Arms

Daily Mail in its column Coffee Break gives some interesting information.
On 28 July 1994 it published the following -

The Scottish unicorn kept in chains by King James

Question: Why is the unicorn shown chained on the Royal Coat of Arms, while the lion isn't?

TODAY'S Royal Coat of Arms dates from the constitutional change of 1603, known as the Union of the Crowns. Then Elizabeth I of England died and was succeeded by her first cousin twice removed, King James VI of Scotland, who became James I of England. His new Coat of Arms incorporated one of the two unicorns from the Scottish Coat of Arms with one of the two lions from the English Coat of Arms.

The lion of England, symbolic of the resurrection of Christ, was rampant on the English Coat and remained so on the new version. The unicorn of Scotland, chained to symbolise the Crucifixion, also stayed the same.

Robert McCabe,
Glasgow.

4. BEHAVIOUR OF CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIMS TODAY

4.1 The Christians
BBC News Sunday 25 May 2008

Church to debate convert motion

A traditionalist Anglican has said he will continue with a campaign for the Church of England to work explicitly to convert Muslims to Christianity.
Paul Eddy, a lay member of the General Synod, has come under intense pressure from bishops to withdraw his plan. But he has secured enough support for his motion to be debated at the next meeting of the Church's ruling body.
The motion calls on the Church to proclaim Christianity as the only route to ultimate salvation.
Mr Eddy, who is training to become a priest, has been denounced by some Muslims, but says the Church can no longer avoid hard questions about its beliefs. He said he had received angry e-mails and telephone calls from senior figures in the Church denouncing his motion.

No-go areas
Mr Eddy claims to have the backing of at least 124 members of the synod, including the Bishops of Rochester, Carlisle and Chester. Speaking to the Sunday programme on BBC Radio Four, he said that in an effort to be inclusive and inoffensive, the church had "lost its nerve" and was "not doing what the Bible says".
"Both Christianity and Islam are missionary faiths," he said. "For years, we have sent missionaries throughout the whole world, but when we have the privilege of people of all nations on our doorstep, we have a responsibility as the state church to share the gospel of Jesus Christ."
Mr Eddy claimed that 20% of parishes contained populations in which 60% of people were not Christian. And he said that without a concerted effort, the church was in danger of creating "no-go areas for the gospel".
"Most Muslims that I've talked to say, 'I really wish that Christians would stop watering down their faith and expecting us to do the same. Until we start really saying what we really believe in our faith, there will be no respect. Actually, to present to a Muslim that we believe Jesus is the only way to God, they'll say, 'We know that'.
"They will expect us - if we're true Christians - to try to evangelise them, in the same way they will expect us, if they're true Muslims, to adopt their faith."

Risk of alienation
Mr Eddy called for a code of good practice to be drawn up by bishops to give church members advice on how to evangelise. It should also give advice, he said, on how to support Muslims who choose to convert and are then ostracised by their communities.
BBC News religious affairs correspondent Robert Piggott says Mr Eddy's stance is likely to alienate many Muslims at a highly-sensitive time in the relationship between Islam and Christianity in the UK.
Our correspondent added that the motion is a sign of the conservative evangelical wing of the Church flexing its muscles to oppose what it warns is a watering down of Christian values in deference especially to Muslims. The summer meeting of the synod is from 4 July to 8 July in York. [ We welcome this move. ]

4.2 The Muslims

4.2.1 Muslims split on caste lines in this Bihar village
Posted by: "aswa hindcivil" aswahindcivil@yahoo.com aswahindcivil
Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:18 a.m (PST)

Bharat Gupt <bharatgupt@vsnl.com> wrote: To: hinducivilization@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 11:35:22 +0530
Subject: [hc] Muslims split on caste lines in this Bihar village
I am wondering how the news below should be taken. Is this is an example of the Hindu caste system transferring a hierarchy into the Muslims or is it a continuation of the divisions that foreign Muslims brought with them.

This is a one of the very frequent example of the constant clashes that occur between the high born (ashraf) Muslims claiming descent from the elite classes that came from Afghanistan, Mongolia and the Arabic empire as military rulers and the local converts called the arzal and the ajlaf. Of these the elite class of ashraf, is as closed and inbred as are the orthodox Hindu Rajputs or Tamil Iyers. Nobody, however rich and educated, would be admitted to an ashraf tribe/caste if he converts, unless it is a she who marries an ashraf male. The bulk of the conversions to Islam are from the very low of castes, mostly harijans, who retain their earlier names like dhobis, chamaar etc, and join the ajlaf category.
http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/248209.html

Express News Service

Muslims split on caste lines in this Bihar village
J P Yadav
Posted online: Sunday, December 09, 2007 at 0000 hrs

Kesaria (East Champaran), December 8: On Thursday, six huts belonging to Muslim families were set ablaze in Allehpur village of East Champaran district in Bihar. The accused are fellow Muslims from the same village. For over a year now, the Muslim population in the village is locked in a bitter caste war between the forward caste Saiyyads and backward caste Ansaris. And it was the Ansaris' huts that were set ablaze, allegedly by some Saiyyads.

The differences have spilled over to the mosque too. The Ansaris have stopped offering prayers at the village mosque and built their own temporary mosque. "They treat us like upper caste Hindus treat Dalits. Though they allowed us inside the village mosque, they would push us and tell us to go to the back to pray. So we decided to have our own mosque," says 75-year-old Yaseen Ansari.

But the Saiyyads claim that the land on which the Ansaris have built the mosque belongs to them. Both the sides have sought official intervention on the matter.

"Humlog jaat ke Saiyyad hain, Muslim ke Brahman hain (We are Saiyyads by caste, the Brahmins among Muslims," says Saiyyad Mohammad Idris, a villager, addressing the Ansaris as lowly "Jolhas". According to locals, the differences began in April last year when a car carrying an Ansari bridegroom reportedly trampled over the graveyard of some Saiyyads' ancestors. The situation has worsened now with the burning of the six huts belonging to Ansaris.
In an FIR, Saiyadda Khatun (60), one of those whose huts was burnt, has identified eight Saiyyad members. But the police have refrained from arresting them. "In her statement, she said she had not seen anyone. But in the FIR lodged later, she has identified eight persons. So we are investigating the matter," said Ajay Kumar, Inspector, Kesaria police station.

District officials accuse local politicians of fanning the flames. The Pasmanda Muslim Mahaj headed by Ali Anwar, whose campaign for Muslim backward castes earned him a Rajya Sabha berth, commands a strong support base among the Ansaris of Allehpur.

sincerely,
Bharat Gupt Associate Professor, CVS, Delhi University,
Founder member and Trustee
International Forum for India's Heritage.
PO Box 8518, Ashok Vihar, Delhi 110052 INDIA.
mobile: +91-98100 77914
home phones: +91-11-2724-1490,+91-129-404-4590
email: bharatgupt@vsnl.com
homepage: http://personal.vsnl.com/bharatgupt